Comments on: Roguelike Definition

By: Jraregris

Jraregris — Sun, 11 May 2008 11:59:44 +0000

I think that this is a good way to determine RL-ity. The usenet discussions on the subject usually boils down to each participant sporting his own set of rules of what is required, when in reality what defines the rougelikeity of a game is the of features, as you present here, which induvidually might be omitted without unrogueliking the game.

By: HeckRuler

HeckRuler — Thu, 01 May 2008 16:39:29 +0000

Ah, I understand now. However, I think that specific feature, murdering nobles in town, falls more under “Freedom” then “Single Command Set”. I still say it deserves to be bumped down to middle or low value.

Perma-death is defiantly a high value.

(also, your comment box thinks it’s about 4 characters wider then it actually is. hmmm, I am using an old version of IE…)

By: Matthew

Matthew — Thu, 01 May 2008 01:20:21 +0000

I’m not so sure about that a high amount of content is in the medium, but certainly in the high; a good Roguelike has always followed the idea of many items and features, which when combined with the fourth part of that middle-list, you have a very interesting game with items and features used to the interest of the player and makes them more willing to play.

Also, I would say that permafailure is not always important, considering you want to feel some sense of accomplishment instead of consistent death all the time.

By: John H.

John H. — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:05:03 +0000

This is a good list of aspects, I think.

By: Slash

Slash — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:56:02 +0000

Maybe it is not clear enough… what I mean with ’single command set’ is you can (try to) use any of your available actions at any moment; for example if you are in town you can cast fireball into the noble, innocent town major, your offensive actions are not restricted to the ‘battles’, all the game happens in the same ‘reality’ as per world rules; it doesnt matter if you have to go through a filtered menu, as long as the filter is not applied based on whatever situation you are in (with exception of your character skills or advancement). Other kind of games have different command sets depending on whether or not you are in combat, in a friendly town, in the overworld or an hostile area, or boarding a vehicle, or in a special minigame mode. You can’t cast Ultima over the people in Narshe you know.

I’m open to discussion :)

By: HeckRuler

HeckRuler — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:47:40 +0000

Reguarding “Single command set”, I’m not so sure about this one. On one side, a troll-barbarian can *try* to do anything a gnome wizard can do, from a command perspective. On the other, I really don’t see the problem with removing the command for a barbarian to try and cast spells. Dragons breath fire, but do all players need a command to try and breath fire? I understand that a lot of RL’s have an open command set (and a lot of commands that don’t do jack), but I don’t think it’s on the high value list.

I mean, “techniques” in slash’em break this rule. Specialized commands aren’t any more evil then specialized features, and specialized features are pretty much the basis for having variety in character creation.

By: Slash

Slash — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:42:19 +0000

Yep… what I mean is roguelikes are a mix; you are unlikely to find a game which complies with all of these factors, (unless it is Rogue or an extended version of it). Dwarf Fortress (in fortress mode) has a pretty high roguelikeness value, that is as far as we can go to determine if it is or not a roguelike.

My suggestion goes for something like 3 points for high valued factors, 2 and 1 for middle and low. Thus DF would get some respectable 19/27 roguelike points, GearHead gets 22/27, and so on (Aquaria gets 7/27, for instance :) )

By: Krabator

Krabator — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:50:17 +0000

I agree,

DF is not a RL for me,
Yes, one part of the game is a RL… but not all the game…

I consider the game as a mix.
RL / dwarf management :)

By: Slink

Slink — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:28:20 +0000

“In dwarf fortress, you don’t control a lone character, and gameplay is not hack and slash.”
Try DF’s adventure mode–it’s exactly that.

By: PM, SN

PM, SN — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 05:01:12 +0000

Dwarf fortress is a roguelike, or so it’s been referred to round these parts.

In dwarf fortress, you don’t control a lone character, and gameplay is not hack and slash.

The rest still fit, though.

Time for a revision!